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原始链接: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44076170

这篇 Hacker News 讨论帖探讨了丢番图方程复杂度界的形式化证明,强调了 Matiyasevich-Robinson-Davis-Putnam (MRDP) 定理令人惊讶的结果。一位用户指出,存在一个可以写在单张纸上的多项式,其一个变量取值为整数解时恰好为素数。另一位用户强调了 J.P. Jones 的定理,该定理指出,任何可证明的公理化理论中的命题都存在一个仅包含 100 次加法和乘法的证明。 随后讨论转向了所讨论论文的具体发现,一位用户总结道,任何丢番图方程都可以简化为最多包含 11 个变量且次数约为 10^63 的方程,其在有理数域中的可解性是不可判定的。这引发了关于潜在任意大的系数的问题。讨论最后以关于实际密码学意义和确定 MRDP 的最小不可判定对(变量数、次数)的开放性问题而结束。

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  • 原文
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    A Formal Proof of Complexity Bounds on Diophantine Equations (arxiv.org)
    89 points by badmonster 1 day ago | hide | past | favorite | 11 comments










    A mind-blowing consequence of the MRDP theorem is that there is a multi-variate polynomial which fits on a sheet of paper with the property that the set of values of the first variable which appear in integer solutions are exactly the set of prime numbers.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_for_primes#Formula_bas...



    An even crazier consequence was pointed out by J.P. Jones in 1982. He explained:

    "Via Gödel numbering, the theorems of an axiomatizable theory T become in effect an recursively enumerable set. The search for proofs becomes the search for solutions of a Diophantine equation. [...]

    "Theorem. For any axiomatizable theory T and any proposition P, if P has a proof in T, then P has another proof consisting of 100 additions and multiplications of integers."

    See https://www.jstor.org/stable/2273588



    Why 100?


    > is a polynomial inequality in 26 variables, and the set of prime numbers is identical to the set of positive values taken on by the left-hand side as the variables a, b, …, z range over the nonnegative integers.

    I hadn’t heard of this result, and my exposure to Diophantine equations is limited to precisely one seminar from undergrad, but this feels like taking von Neumann’s famous quip to its most fantastical extreme:

    > With four parameters I can fit an elephant, and with five I can make him wiggle his trunk.



    Non-negative integer solutions


    I found https://x.com/gm8xx8/status/1925768687618773079 to be a little more understandable summary of what was actually shown.

    Any Diophantine equation can be reduced to one of at most 11 variables and degree at most around 10^63. No algorithm can decide solvability in rational numbers for this class of Diophantine equations.



    That sounds like the coefficients might have to be arbitrarily large. Otherwise all DE's could reduce to a finite set of them, impossible via the MRDP theorem. So it's not so easy to call that bounded complexity.


    I was just thinking about how it's an underrated open problem which pairs of (number of variables, degree) are undecidable for MRDP.

    Correct me if I'm wrong but I think it's guaranteed to have a finite answer, as a list of the minimal undecidable pairs. You can even throw in maximum absolute value of coefficients, though if you limit all three things that's decidable by being finite.



    Does this have any practical consequences for cryptography?


    Likely not.


    impressive formalization effort that bridges deep number theory and formal methods






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