Tangential: 2 Youtuber linguists have created a Dragon Language [0] and a Gorilla language [1], which incorporate breathing fire and beating your chest respectively. Basically my point is that life is pretty resourceful when it comes to communication.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/shorts/lpHuXceIRmE

[1] https://www.youtube.com/shorts/qwUoLQmO4dk

The circumstances for life make language pretty universal. Every statemachine transducing knows what the lack of execution energy aka hunger is.

The only thing i can imagine erroding that away is a prolonged surplus society. A startrek like language i can imagine pretty much communicating "hunger" only as a foodsource-error.

But the situations for the individual and the neuro adaptions (mental phenotypes)i imagine to be pretty universal .

> 2 Youtuber linguists have created a Dragon Language

> ~~life is pretty resourceful~~

Youtubers are pretty creative.

Given our limited success in understanding the communication of non-human species (despite sharing evolutionary ancestry) our chances of meaningfully communicating with an alien species are likely near zero, unless they take the lead in bridging the gap.

We often assume that language, a distinctly human trait, is a prerequisite for intelligence or success, but it may be unique to us. Even on our own planet, no other species demonstrates the capacity for language.

It depends what you mean by language. I think you're using a very narrow definition in your comment. We already have evidence that some whales use sounds to identify other whales, i.e. "names". We also have building evidence that their vocalization contains some sort of words. If you expand language beyond spoken language, there is evidence of clear communication of complex data, like bees explaining others where to find food with basically little dance moves.

A large part of our "intelligence" is actually the ability to not needing to know everything, because we live in a society. I don't need to know how to build a vehicle or how it works to be able to learn how to drive it. Most animals don't have that luxury. And an important requirement for that is being able to communicate complex ideas with your peers, and pass them on to the next generations.

Maybe if intelligence alien life is completely different than what we find on Earth, this isn't necessary. Like if they don't live in the same plane of existence. But if it is comprised of physical conscious individuals, it's highly likely that they would have some sort of language.

> We already have evidence

> We also have building evidence that

You're agreeing with them. They didn't say we have "limited evidence of communication", they said we have "limited success understanding the communication of".

In the first paragraph, sure. In the second, not so much.

Assuming the alien life is intelligent and motivated to speak to us [0], then we have a significant advantage over our attempts at understanding existing animal languages.

There is ample precedent for that on Earth. In our own history, when two district linguistic groups meet, they do not learn each other's language. They mutually establish a primitive protocol language (pidgin) that is sufficient for communication.

With animals, pretty much any pet owner can attest to establishing some communicative ability with their pets. Even with non domestic species like dolphins, scientists have been able to establish basic communication.

If there was a species of comparable intelligence, knowledge, and institutional capacity to us, we would be able to work around having incompatible innate communication facilities.

[0] In the build intergalactic space ships, and whatever their version of dedicating teams of researchers and supporting logistics is

I have a cat and I noticed that the communication is mostly cat -> me. Not really the other way round.

She is very capable to express what she wants, but my attemps not so much.

Except when I make certain weird noises (a specific set). She will wave her tail a bit every time, whether she is sleeping, or staying at something invisible, or looking at the roomba.

I always wondered what this tell wave mean (it is just the sun's, they're is no followup afterward)

I think having fairly advanced species on both sides of the problem would lead to communication at some point.

I'd guess that it could take years or decades even for simple communication, and the nuances of cultural exchange could take centuries.

For the forward after the beginning is is with the backward before the beginning is.

My head canon says Yoda speaks that way because time he perceives differently.

Can we build an AI device X that can start a conversation with another device X (but alien) and figures out the language rules of the alien language?

What would such a device be called? Perhaps universal translator?

> Can we build an AI device X that can start a conversation with another device X (but alien) and figures out the language rules of the alien language?

> What would such a device be called? Perhaps universal translator?

Such a device is properly called "a fantasy."

Would such a device be a "human security hole?" Any bad actor alien species could study the AI construct and get a great overview of the holistic capacity of humanity, which would expose any weak areas ripe for invasion.

There has to be a shared set of knowledge to bootstrap from. On earth this is a given because we all breathe, drink water and eat fruits from trees. We can point at things and call their name, and that works because both parties know the object and a word for it.

We can start by teaching basic mathematics, e.g. 0=0, 1=1, 2=10, 3=11, etc., then geometry, circles, squares, angles, etc., pythagoras 3^2+4^2=5^2, etc.

Correct https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Universal_translator

I think the difference with the UT from star trek is that the device X will talk to another device X instead of listening/interacting directly in the spoken language.

What data will the AI be trained on?

The idea is that the AI will have a conversation with the device of the aliens, exchanging information and learning on the way. Depending on the performance of both devices this can take seconds, or hours.

Or eternity.

But will they be exchanging anything, and would that anything be worth calling "information"? There's a lot of assumptions in this sentence, to the level of calling it magical thinking. (Our) AI is not magic, and is only interpolating human knowledge, so I don't think it can figure anything out by itself. In any case nothing novel. Note I'm not saying "impossible" but definitely not just "let them chat" - which already assumes they found a way to do (what we define as) chat.

> But will they be exchanging anything, and would that anything be worth calling "information"?

If I'm understanding, the main idea is for it to figure out language/grammar rules, which would then enable communication between the two species. I think it makes sense to call that information, but its utility is independent of what we call it.

Such a device might make sense as something to include on probes we send out in case they encounter life, since in many cases round-trip communication back with Earth would take a long time.

> (Our) AI is not magic, and is only interpolating human knowledge, so I don't think it can figure anything out by itself.

I don't think deep learning models are interpolating in any literal sense - curse of dimensionality means essentially no real inputs or outputs fall within the convex hull of the training samples.

LLMs aren't currently as good at reasoning as humans are, but figuring out language rules does feel within their wheelhouse. Granted our architecture choices, like attention, do convey some priors that are true of human languages but might not be of alien languages, so we shouldn't expect them to be as good at picking up alien languages as human languages, but similar can be said of our own brains.

C3-PO

> A remake using a local LLM ...

Training data for that LLM could be difficult to source...

Well sure, but the game creator would have to come up with a reasonably self-consisten language anyway, so could potentially generate training data.

Given it's an alien language, we'd be less inclined to see its flaws I imagine.

Vonnegut already imagined aliens from planet Margo communicating by farting and tap dancing.

Almost as wierd as the aliens in Embassytown then!

> Sign language […] does have something map-like that the author writes about.

Not really, no. Sign languages have basically the same structure as spoken languages. (Exceptions are fairly minor, e.g. the use of space for anaphora in ASL.)

> That the language does not have written form is not helping.

Again, no. There are a number of well-established sign language writing systems, including SignWriting [0] and Stokoe Notation [1].

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SignWriting

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokoe_notation

Nice Read, but one example was missed, Dolphins and Whales.

We know they communicate to each other, and maybe the "language" is simple. People have tried for decades without luck.

Can you imagine what a complex alien language would be like ? I think our only hope would be the aliens can understand our language.

Right? What if the language is like patterns in electromagnetic waves or something. People get caught up on it being "not dissimilar to existing Early languages," but it could be as abstract as "vibe-based language."