Arduino is at work to make bio-based PCBs

Animats · 2025-05-11T05:08:49 1746940129

From the actual paper: "The resulting yield of PCB production was around 50%. Signal analysis was successful with analogue data acquisition (voltage) and low-frequency (4 kHz) tests, indistinguishable from sample FR4 boards. Eventually, the samples were subjected to highly accelerated stress test (HAST). HAST tests revealed limitations compared to traditional FR4 printed circuit materials. After six cycles, the weight loss was around 30% in the case of PLA/Flax, and as three-point bending tests showed, the possible ultimate strength (25 MPa at a flexural state) was reduced by 80%."[1]

This sort of problem has come up many times with attempts to put some biological filler material into a composite. Most biological materials absorb and release water, and change size and weight as they do. This causes trouble for anything exposed to humidity changes. The classic "hemp/soybean car" ran into this problem.[2] In 1941, plastics were more expensive, and there were attempts to find some cheap material to use as filler. That never got beyond a prototype. Modern attempts at bio-composites seem to hit the same problem.[3]

This might have potential for cheap disposable toys, where expected lifetime is in months and disposal as ordinary trash is desirable.

[1] https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1361-6528/ad66d3

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soybean_car

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biocomposite

hulitu · 2025-05-11T09:39:53 1746956393

> The classic "hemp/soybean car" ran into this problem.[2] In 1941,

Damn, I always thought that Cheech and Chong's hemp car was fiction.

userbinator · 2025-05-11T06:31:29 1746945089

This might have potential for cheap disposable toys, where expected lifetime is in months and disposal as ordinary trash is desirable.

...as if anyone wanted more of that.

harvey9 · 2025-05-11T07:13:00 1746947580

I took it to mean they would be biodegradable.

hulitu · 2025-05-11T09:42:14 1746956534

> I took it to mean they would be biodegradable.

The only biodegradable materials are plants and animals. Plastic (however "green") is not. You still get small pieces of plastic from it.

harvey9 · 2025-05-11T10:11:38 1746958298

I believe that was the original point: these are plant-based materials so they absorb water which makes them unsuitable for PCBs

awei · 2025-05-11T07:20:48 1746948048

For a moment I thought they were making hobbyist PCBs you can put in your body.

klysm · 2025-05-11T17:50:12 1746985812

Greenwashing - this kind of idea has been floating around for years and I don’t think it’s really that big of a problem

westurner · 2025-05-11T18:07:20 1746986840

No, we have environmentally and financially unsustainable supply chain dependencies on silicon-grade sand and other gases and minerals.

PCBs are not biodegradable but could be. What is the problem?

klysm · 2025-05-11T18:38:52 1746988732

You haven't pointed out anything specific to FR4, which is what this would be replacing. This is merely a ploy at getting funding, and I'm very skeptical about it because I've seen 2 or 3 companies do the exact same pitch and fail before.

crote · 2025-05-09T00:00:19 1746748819

I wonder how it compares to FR-2, an older paper-based PCB substrate. These new bio-based PCBs seem to have some characteristics closer to that than to regular FR-4.

jdietrich · 2025-05-11T02:28:44 1746930524

Poorly. PLA has a notoriously low heat deflection temperature, losing nearly all yield strength above about 60ºC. Any 3D printing enthusiast will know that PLA turns into a wet noodle in a hot car. Unless they've made a significant breakthrough in polymer chemistry, this substrate just won't work for the vast majority of applications.

serf · 2025-05-11T18:12:09 1746987129

PLA is too vague to know anything like that about.

There are 100% 'bio' PLA variants with HDT values over 130c+, colorfabb PLA-HP comes to mind.

jdietrich · 2025-05-11T21:09:44 1746997784

Polylactic acid is polylactic acid. It has known properties.

I don't know what Colorfabb's PLA-HP filament is actually made of, but it obviously isn't PLA; it's almost certainly some kind of proprietary (and therefore non-recyclable) co-polymer. "Bio-based" is a very different claim to "biodegradable".

userbinator · 2025-05-11T04:31:43 1746937903

In other words, it's just stupid eco-virtue-signaling at its best.

gitroom · 2025-05-11T07:57:10 1746950230

Gotta say, I keep wanting these bio-PCBs to be awesome, but tbh the durability stuff always throws me off. Kinda blows when things gotta get tossed every couple months.

userbinator · 2025-05-11T04:33:58 1746938038

and built to last in every sense.

Strong doubt. All this is just greenwashing planned obsolescence to make things self-destruct more quickly, so they can keep selling you more.

westurner · 2025-05-11T18:02:22 1746986542

Graphene is free when you flash heat unsorted recycled plastic and sell or use the Hydrogen.

Graphene can be produced from CO2.

CO2 is overly-abundant and present in emissions that need to be filtered anyway.

What types of graphene and other forms of carbon do not conduct electricity, are biodegradable , and would be usable as a graphene PCB for semiconductors and superconductors?

Graphene Oxide (low cost of production), Graphane (hydrogen; high cost of production), Diamond (lowering cost of production, also useful for NV QC nitrogen-vacancy quantum computing; probably in part due to the resistivity of the molecular lattice),

How could graphene oxide PCBs be made fire-proof?

Non-Conductive Flame Retardants: phosphorous, nitrogen (melamine,), intumescent systems, inorganic fillers

Is there a bio-based flame-retardant organic filler for [Graphene Oxide] PCBs?

（评论） (comments)

（评论）
(comments)