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原始链接: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43692360

这篇Hacker News帖子讨论了一篇文章,文章阐述了二战后美国如何通过大力资助大学科研,包括间接成本如设施和行政管理,从而成为科学超级大国。这种“秘诀”使美国能够建设世界一流的实验室,吸引全球科学家,并促进创新,最终产生了大量的专利、初创企业和就业机会。 评论者强调和平与自由以及财政投资同等重要。然而,人们也担心,由于政府对大学科研的支持减少以及中国等其他国家的崛起,美国的主导地位可能下降。一位评论者指出,中国在雷达研究方面的进步速度很快,已经超过了美国。另一位评论者认为,美国的体系培养了过多的STEM人才,导致这些人寻求海外机会,尤其是在中国,在那里他们会得到奖励。关于目前的资助模式是否有效,以及它们是否更有利于大学管理人员而不是科研本身,存在争议。

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  • 原文
    Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login
    How the U.S. Became a Science Superpower (steveblank.com)
    32 points by groseje 2 hours ago | hide | past | favorite | 13 comments










    Worth reading in its entirety. The following four paragraphs, about post-WWII funding of science in Britain versus the US, are spot-on, in my view:

    > Britain’s focused, centralized model using government research labs was created in a struggle for short-term survival. They achieved brilliant breakthroughs but lacked the scale, integration and capital needed to dominate in the post-war world.

    > The U.S. built a decentralized, collaborative ecosystem, one that tightly integrated massive government funding of universities for research and prototypes while private industry built the solutions in volume.

    > A key component of this U.S. research ecosystem was the genius of the indirect cost reimbursement system. Not only did the U.S. fund researchers in universities by paying the cost of their salaries, the U.S. gave universities money for the researchers facilities and administration. This was the secret sauce that allowed U.S. universities to build world-class labs for cutting-edge research that were the envy of the world. Scientists flocked to the U.S. causing other countries to complain of a “brain drain.”

    > Today, U.S. universities license 3,000 patents, 3,200 copyrights and 1,600 other licenses to technology startups and existing companies. Collectively, they spin out over 1,100 science-based startups each year, which lead to countless products and tens of thousands of new jobs. This university/government ecosystem became the blueprint for modern innovation ecosystems for other countries.

    The author's most important point is at the very end of the OP:

    > In 2025, with the abandonment of U.S. government support for university research, the long run of U.S. dominance in science may be over.



    Being the sole western industrialized nation that hadn't just had most of their infrastructure bombed to rubble can't have hurt.


    Gonna state the obvious: freedom and peace. People mention money but money followed technological boom. And, yes, peace derived from military.


    You might clarify "domestic peace". America has been one of the most secure nations in history from large-scale domestic invasion (it's essentially never happened: Pearl Harbor, isolated terrorist attacks, and "open borders" don't come close). That said, it has virtually always been actively involved in foreign conflicts and shadow wars during its 250 year history.

    And yes, it's domestic security that enables long-term investment in science.



    We are killing the golden goose


    dunno if it is this plain.. the regulatory capture in the last 30 years is not null. Especially in very niche, very profitable sub-corners of big-S Science.


    A reminder that in a democracy, it's probably best to make sure the gold is widely shared. Lest the poorly educated masses of people without access to the gold vote to kill the goose.


    Impossible since that would mean extreme left wing radical socialism. And communism.


    If you read nothing else in this excellent post, read the conclusion:

    > A key component of this U.S. research ecosystem was the genius of the indirect cost reimbursement system. Not only did the U.S. fund researchers in universities by paying the cost of their salaries, the U.S. gave universities money for the researchers facilities and administration. This was the secret sauce that allowed U.S. universities to build world-class labs for cutting-edge research that were the envy of the world. Scientists flocked to the U.S. causing other countries to complain of a “brain drain.”

    and:

    > Today, China’s leadership has spent the last three decades investing heavily to surpass the U.S. in science and technology.

    In my field (a type of radar related research) in which I've worked for almost 30 yrs, papers from China have gone from sparse and poorly done imitations of western papers (~15-20 yrs ago), to innovative must reads if you want to stay on top of the field. Usually when I think of a new idea, it has already been done by some Chinese researcher. The Biden administration seemed to recognize this issue and put a lot of money toward this field. All that money and more is going away. I'm hoping to stay funded through the midterms on other projects (and that there are midterms), and hoping that the US can get back on track (the one that actually made it 'great', at least by the metrics in the post.



    I don't know that I'd rely too heavily on midterms in 26. Gerrymandering and all that.


    What is the evidence of the connection between indirect cost reimbursement and outcomes? This is just blatant propaganda to justify public money being used to pay university administrators.


    How? Money.

    There is one problem with the current US system: it overproduces talent. When the US system was growing rapidly, the people could build a long-term career in the US. But nothing can grow forever at an exponential pace. The US continues to pour plenty of money into STEM, but it can't keep up with the pace of grad student production.

    People are making smart, individual decisions to head overseas for work. Places like China are rewarding them.



    > People are making smart, individual decisions to head overseas for work. Places like China are rewarding them.

    Wait what? I know that many Chinese students are staying in China, but this is the first I've heard of a substantial demographic immigrating to China to work there, esp from the US. Do you have data?







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