Psytrance Guide https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20693904 (August 14, 2019 — 465 points, 210 comments)

If you're fancy you can use a stepper or lfo sync'd to 16th notes to do the same thing instead of programming loops of 16th notes.

And of course, you sidechain compress that with the kick to get the pumping sound.

That's how you get the deep vibe of a psy track that resonates in the club at 2am.

That's just the basics. The really good tracks find ways to make it crazy, like modulating the decay of the filter envelope with velocity of the notes and then adding velocity curves to create dynamics with the baseline, or adding a reverb send and automating the send level as you build up to the end of a phrase. Or taking the basic idea (a plucky bass with sixteenth notes) and changing how the pluck is defined via an FM synth, or overdrive, or frequency shift, and so on. It's such a simple sound that can be driven to weird places.

A sawtooth is a wave that looks like the blade of a saw. It is pretty close to sinusoidal, so it sounds somewhat like a single tone, but there is some distortion and harmonics; not nearly as much as you'd get from a square wave, though.

A synthesizer has an envelope generator, to model how real instruments increase in volume, keep a steady volume while active, and then decay. The envelope is usually multiplied by the underlying waveform, like a sawtooth, to give it these characteristics.

If you have a musical keyboard, pressing a key chooses the frequency of the sawtooth, and the moment that the key is pressed and released trigger the envelope generator and choose its shape.

For the psytrace bass line-- instead of the envelope generator being multiplied by the signal (and controlling its amplitude directly), instead it is used to sweep a filter. How much of the distortion and harmonics you hear from the sawtooth changes over the course of the note and gives the bassline its distinctive sound.

It's this sort of stuff that makes it so good. Nothing like eavesdropping on a highly technical conversation in an esoteric field. Love it.

so with 16ths, you'd typically see 1/16 & 2/16 have zero to little amplitude, 3/16 & 4/16 have most of the energy. 4 maybe even a little less so.

which can't be done by sidechaining. also phase alignment with the kick is important

Yes phase alignment is important too. There's always a sweet spot where it just sounds "right". Plus staring endlessly at an oscilloscope to check they aren't interfering. Then doing it for hours and hours and wondering at the end if it sounded better before you started mucking around with it actually but your ears are so tired of it you can't tell anymore.

This stuff is such a rabbit hole. Lots of fun though.

There is a lot of resources all over the web, and tutors and courses that you can do.

If you want to start off with an easy introduction then maybe Oscar @ Underdog can help: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAJz4-YZdio&t=8s

If you want to product Psytrance - then you are lucky because IMHO it's perhaps the easiest most formulaic genre.

Seriously, interesting discussion. I think I'll stick with physical instruments!

I send that through a cheap echo-delay pedal, then a reverb pedal, so I have a lot of control over the dynamics of whatever sound I'm making. I tend to use the Brute for basslines but it's super versatile.

From there, it depends on what I'm trying to make or play with, but I've had a great time using the Brute as both sound and MIDI input to get some nice layered input. VSTs are totally preferential of course, but I have the Arturia Jupiter 8 VST for when I want to get REALLY deep into analog synths without spending $25k on a working physical model.

Otherwise, I also have an Arturia Beatstep Pro (I'm an Arturia fanboi for sure, but their stuff is affordable and fun) which I can control the Brute with via CV in case I want to have it play a loop while I twist some knobs. I also have a profile set up in Ableton that allows me to use all the Beatstep Pro knobs to control various knobs/sliders on the Jupiter 8 VST, which has opened me up for a lot of possibilities. Beyond that, the Brute has a "mod panel" which allows for some fun stuff like jumping the LFO to the sub bass knob - the Brute is monophonic but has an overtone generator you can tune anywhere from -8 to +5.

It sounds like modular or custom synthesis are what you are looking for, but for my level of skill/time/hobby it's nice to have a setup that can fit entirely on an old Yamaha keyboard :)

EDIT: just noticed the analog there, I don't know anything about that.

I've switched to the [dub] techno scene a few years ago, and it looks like there's much more psychedelia and overall creative stuff going on over there now. Azu Tiwaline, Al Wootton, Deadbeat, Claudio PRC, Ntogn, Luigi Tozzi, Feral, and so on. Party goes on!

That said, there's plenty of great modern artists, too...however, some amazing stuff was happening back in the day that I missed out on, and it is a treat to discover that now.

Also, I don't listen to hardcore / horror core techno much, but I find it striking how the artists adopt the imagery and themes that I would traditionally associate with metal: horrors, monsters, final battles for future of humanity, etc.

Everything that dude touched turned to gold. I've never found another artist who made music as unique and complex as him. Listening to Shpongle, its basically impossible to place the time period its from. It's totally unique music in it's own category.

Shpongle also "just" sounds like "normal" psytrance with added flute, to me, after many hours of listening, and the flute is Raja Ram's addition iirc. I stopped following Posford after Younger Brother - Vaccine came out, though.. never could get into that one, and I always found Hallucinogen to be "just like Shpongle but not as good"

https://simonposford.bandcamp.com/album/flux-contemplation-p...

I also wonder whether we could use deep learning to learn representations unbiased by our own history with the genres, and analyze this in a more unbiased way. But I'm also sure you can make the model say whatever you want if you bend the data the right way :)

Compare that to a similarly layered and voiced project in a modern DAW. While the compute requirements have gone up drastically, the complexity the DAW has compressed into a single screen would make it trivial to make a similar album now (from a purely technical standpoint - the album is still the work of an artist).

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wormhole_(album)

The specific album you mentioned, has two tracks I like (Heavyweight and Suliman) because I saw a fellow on YouTube using a guitar to 1:1 the riffs. It was that good that I donated to him. But otherwise I've never been much of a fan of IM. I find they're overrated.

When I think of goa trance I think of names like Astral Projection, Green Nuns Of The Revolution, Hallucinogen, Man With No Name, Miranda, Prana, Transwave and many of these dabbled into the psytrance genre. Some came back!

I'll mention some of my favourites: Hallucinogen live at DNA Lounge (2001?), Paul Oakenfold's Essential Mix ('Goa silver and gold mix', '94), any 90s live set by Astral Projection (there are many), and Imperial Project / Goa Syndrome (all of which were released on MP3.com). Also, any remix by MWNN and AP is gold.

Although I do like the variety that has developed, especially when there's multi-room club and it's possible to walk around and find whatever fits your current mood and energy level.

You're going to have to trust me that as far as Israeli producers go, IM are neither cheesy nor commercial.

> I don't consider them truly representative of psy-trance, at least the eurocentric versions I listen to.

Ehhh, that's veering way too close to "metal genres" territory for me

My favorites to put on while focus working are Classical Mushroom and Outdoor Party Vol 3. The latter can be hard to find for some reason but imo is their best.

They host an annual dessert rave and go for a 4 hour retro set starting just before the sun rises. Been there, felt like I've seen the light. It was spiritual.

I have a coding playlist I’ve put together over the years that is more towards the psybient/chillout end but includes some trance as well, I like the variation in speed and intensity: https://spotify.link/CHSvf399YDb

Reviewing the playlist highlighted that Spotify, for some reason, no longer has Smoked Glass and Chrome (Blumenkraft) available, or at least it's not available in AU / for me. The rest of the album remains available, but that track is just spectacularly good.

I bought the album off bandcamp ages ago, so it's only mildly inconvenient, but in turn highlights the annoyance of music brokers like Spotify silently dropping items from their catalogue.

I still have a large digital library of “owned” music (the core of this playlist I think dates back to files purchased from the iTunes Music Store the first year it launched in 2003), but the convenience of streaming has gotten me out of the habit of maintaining it.

I once saw Simon in a massive rave as Hallucinogen from 4am to 8am and Shpongle from 12pm to 3pm. Those Gamma Goblins still travel trough my spine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLLzz4vxKb0

Hallucinogen In Dub (remixed by Ott) is another gorgeous album. Ott has a bunch of his own albums too.

This [0] is more psyambient, isn't? I hate typecasting into genres, but I always saw that as the more chill-side of that version of EDM whereas psytrance was more like Alwoods [1], E-Mantra or Capsula etc...

I spent many HDDs streaming SomaFM and got to listen to a ton of it, but there was a notable difference when those tracks drop in not just tempo/BPM and bassline sigs.Cosmic Leaf Records was a really cool label that used to deal in both sounds as their artists had lots of cross-over.

And thanks to this thread I just found out CBL dropped an album this year, going to go deep on that later this week. Still rinsing World of Sleepers after all this time.

0: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ly4KqXUE0F4 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMy1pB4NG10

If Simon Posford is involved, give it a listen. Much better than some “AI” generative model

Celtic Cross, Ott, and Entheogenic are phenomenal as well.

I'd recommend Third Ear Audio, Carbon Based Lifeforms, Kuba (specifically the album Through a Lens), Phutureprimitive, Saafi Brothers

If you're ever looking to put on a few hours of something and want an epic thematic journey spanning 2 albums, try "When the silence is..." by Koan - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBksiW_3dCY

edit: I'm not sure what genre this fits under, but the album "Deliverance" by Culprate reminds me a lot of Shpongle in ways that it has no right to, since... I'm pretty sure it's not psychill/psytrance

Ah man, his early stuff still holds up; but when he started to get into 140 (Dubstep) I just couldn't get into it; I had been in that sound since 2006 and while I appreciate him expanding as an artist, it was just off-putting.

Mark Pritchard on the other hand (1/2 of Global Communication) had a much better go of it and even got a release(s) on Deep Medi for example.

his first solo album under his own name, Even Tundra, is incredible

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljzFWdax0iE&list=PL44Q4mKIiC...

I always enjoyed this review from Discogs [0]:

"Just turn off the lights, forget the TV and the computer, close the windows and listen to this album with max volume. Spend some time in a different world created by Shulman. You'll be amazed with the effect this album will have on you, trust me!"

Wherever you are Yaniv, I hope you're well.

[0] https://www.discogs.com/Shulman-In-Search-Of-A-Meaningful-Mo...

https://www.music-map.com/shpongle

He's playing in Denver for 2 shows on Halloween weekend btw! I'd catch him since he's technically "retired"

Easily Embarrassed is a band worth checking out. Same with Vibrasphere.

If anybody here is in the Seattle area and wants to check out a show or jam, please email me!

This is in general a great guide, very impressive! I mean it even includes Suomisaundi (one of my favourites) which is such a small subsub-genre, back in the days it encompassed maybe a handful of artists on 1-2 record labels. The sometimes narrow BPM ranges I'd say you can ignore. The genre is very experimental so you can have pretty much any of the faster sub-genres speed down and then just call it "* chill". This was often the case when albums were made in the 00s, that an artist would end with a chill track, many times these were their best outputs and sometimes lead to new side projects.

I don't want to pick on the song selection but there is at least one major artist missing here. Shpongle is probably the most successful psychill artist of all time and one of my most powerful musical experiences of any genre. Start with "Tales of the inexpressible" and work your way through their catalog :)

More than Shpongle missing, I would have expected a sample from Hallucinogen (also Simon Posford's project) which predates Shpongle by a few years, and was at the forefront of the wave of Goa as it spilled over to the western world in its nascent years

I loves the melodic old school goa psytrance, but all everyone seemed to want was that.

I enjoy trying to understand how Psytrance is made and if that is something you find interesting too checkout @Projector_music on youtube (no affiliation).

It used to be my catalog for 0day psy mp3 to hunt in dc++ channels, where I used to hang for days, waiting for a slot to open.

I think I still have some of those releases, and I sure was able to get a good chunk of Psytopia catalog.

Dimension 5, Astral Projection, Infected Mushroom, Analog Pussy, Blue Planet Corporation, Mistery of the Yeti, Shiva Chandra…

I miss my Spirit Zone Records shirt.

Surprised no Shpongle on the lists

Around that time, I became aware of 0day mp3 “scene”, and for some reason I became obsessed with getting all my psy/goa from scene releases. My day went back like this: check for weekly new releases on psyshop; monitor mp3 scene releases log dumps leaks on sites like mp3kings and others, and once the record was released, go hang on dc++ psyside, psyhub and other psy hubs and hit the search until someone appeared with the files. Then you could queue the files and idle until it got spread sufficiently or some “connected” user or admin was kind enough to grant you a slot.

My method worked so well that I started getting requests from top users and admins to grant slots to get the latest stuff. I guess xkcd describes it better [1].

Some of the acts that got my attention or i can remember are:

* Blue Planet Corporation * Phoney Orphans * Ticon * Son Kite * Flying Buddhas * Penta * Minilogue * Shiva Chandra * Shiva Shidappu * Astrix * Vibrasphere * Green nuns of the revolution * GMS * Talamasca * Total Eclipse * Astralasia * Cosma

…and I could keep goin.

[0] https://web.archive.org/web/20200929135452/https://www.psysh...

[1] https://xkcd.com/1095/

One of the things I feel sets them apart (at least in for example in their best works) is that they're very complex tracks that feel like you're going on a journey where they start with a theme and then revisit it later in the track.

I was excited to see this site cause I'd maybe finally understand what subgenre I need to search in specifically but they weren't mentioned even once which is strange since they're the most successful psy artist of all time.

So what sub genre do they fit into and what else can I listen to?

I love Bombat, Bust a Move, The Shen, Dracul, Missed Symphony, Scorpion Frog, Return of the Shadows, Smash the Opponent

Hallucinogen in Dub by Ott, and the Dub Trees project for example to name a few. There is a recent dubstep/psydub crossover which sounds very promising.

Also I would add what is called mental techno in this list, even though it’s more on the acid side of things.

https://shponglemusic.bandcamp.com/album/shpongle-remixed-by...

https://globular.bandcamp.com/album/long-grass-for-small-fro...

Globular has done some distinctly psy dub albums in the last few years. And then on the bass/dubstep side, I'm hearing psy influences in releases by Om Unit (e.g. Acid Dub Studies) and also some of DjRUM's stuff.

While you could certainly make psytrance at 150 BPM, it's going to pack a different punch. You'll make different decisions about what works and what doesn't, and then it's going to end up sounding even more different from the rest of the 138 PBM psytrance -- oops, you've shifted genres. Slow it down to 110 and then people aren't dancing to the track quite the same way anymore. Try dancing to the same song at 100 BPM and then at 120 BPM... you'll notice the difference immediately. Tempo isn't everything, but it's much more than just a number.

There's one moment in a Forest Drive West set (I wish I could remember which one) where he plays the first 45-ish minutes at 160-ish, and then drops down to 125-130 for the last 1hr+ - but he does it in a manner that you never hear DJs do and almost doesn't work. He leaves the ~160BPM track playing, and brings in the 125-ish track over it in a way that creates this really cool syncopated rhythm. It's risky, and there's a reason you usually don't see people do it, but he pulls it off. I have a particular fondness for Jazz music, particularly Jazz musicians who fuck with time in a similar manner, so to hear a DJ pulling off something like that is awesome to me.

But yeah, highly recommend checking out Dozzy's surprise closing set at Terraforma[1] and Patrick Russell's Mostra[2] set.

Edit: The FDW set I'm thinking of is his set from Boom Festival[3].

[1]https://soundcloud.com/donato-dozzy/donato-dozzy-terraforma-...

[2]https://soundcloud.com/monument-podcast/mnmt-recordings-patr...

[3]https://soundcloud.com/boomfestival/forestdrivewest-the-gard...

It actually might appeal to people on here who like psy trance - it’s a different style (hypnotic/deep techno) and tempo but it shares some structural and sonic elements.

I’ve had the pleasure of seeing him play many times and meeting him and he’s just as lovely as you’d hope!

[1] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nGIUCQ8KW9Y or https://m.soundcloud.com/paul-wuerdig/sets/donato-dozzy-laby...

Such a delight seeing psytrance and donato dozzy and dub techno pop up on HN.

Does this specifically apply to Psytrance where I think the tempo stays more or less constant for most of the song. In general is there any Psytrance where tempo evolves during the song, goes up and down? I understand it might be difficult to dance to.

DJs, however, will often be the ones switching the tempo up during a set, either slowly adjusting it up and down over the course of the night, or switching things up and suddenly bringing in a track at a completely different BPM.

The main reason for sticking to a tempo is because psy-trance, and (good) trance music in general is about the constant pulse. The goal is to put the listener in 'the zone' (a trance even :P), and then give them a bunch of ear candy in the mids and highs to keep their happy little brains occupied.

So for any given set DJs generally pick a tempo and stick to it and deliver a driving, consistent pulse, and everything else is just colouring in on top.

Maybe not consciously, but their heart can probably (literaly) feel it and react differently, which is what this is mostly about. And in general I totally agree, that there is way more to music than tempo and I am only partially into anything techno as I like more instruments and variations, but with electronic dance music the rhythm simply matters the most for dancing.

I DJ both electronic formats as well as "general pop hits" nights. People may not consciously tell, but you take a well know track, and speed it up 3-5% (which also increases the pitch, unless you enable pitch-time stretch correction), and it injects a noticeable amount of energy into the dancefloor.

It's also just a social/"conformal" thing. Tempo regions serve as a kind of Schelling point for styles and energy levels. So if you have a given sub-style or vibe, you are likely to produce music in that style and speed, so it can readily mix in the same context.

Again, all of these micro-genres listed still fall under the aegis of "psytrance" and djs can and often do mix across boundaries and pitch stuff up/down as a part of their art. It's really about self-association and capturing specific vibes, vs exclusion or genre-policing.

Since the target audience is 'people who dance to the same music from ~midnight to sunrise', the ability to sustain a steady pace over that period matters the same way it would for a marathon runner or similar. I haven't gone racing in a while but goa parties used to have a pretty consistent cycle of warmup for an hour, take off over an hour, full-on for 4-6 urs depending on the time of year, then the sun comes up and it would switch to 'sloa', basically the same musical flavor but coasting down to a walking pace.

Source: DJ for ~25 years.

This is a weird setup and way to approach it and anyone involved with the scene in its glory days etc never was classifying things this way. Styles based on description of sounds sure but not bpms. This is some weird engineer take on things.

And because the dance styles that match ranges of bpm are so different, audiences find ranges they prefer. Try dancing to 125bpm old berghain tracks and compare with how you’re able to move your body in sync with 155bpm hard groove. It’s a completely different experience. This is dance music.

I caught Rhadoo a few years back and he spent two hours playing this dark, kinda spacey techno that just chugged along real nicely at around 125BPM. I didn't love the tracks, but thought the way that he was blending everything was interesting - I'd recommend seeing him play if you can solely for the master class in mixing that he'll give ya.

At any rate, a little over two hours in, I started to hear a familiar hi-hat. My body knew the track, but I couldn't place it. Then he started fucking with the low-end EQs and you could hear it - Happy Cycling by Boards of Canada (the original, not a remix or an edit or anything), a 100BPM downtempo-ish track, coming into the middle of this dark, chugging techno set at 125BPM. Literally my favorite BoC track and the last thing I'd ever expect to hear in the middle of such a set. It was like he'd built the whole set up to that moment, and it worked so fucking well. I still get chills thinking about it.

Man, this thread has me waxing poetic haha...

I've rarely seen more than ten contemporary listeners and I don't remember how I ran into it myself, but it's the best psytrance thing I'm aware of.

There are various djs though, not all equally good, so maybe check at different times (dj puddles is to a large degree a guarantee).

* yes no tls : - (

The radio seems to be an afterthought, with their main focus being on their Second Life (yes apparently it still exists) clubs.

Anyhow, from Dj Puddles' YouTube videos ( https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCz1rM6EhFvoqq6WC3f9fSwQ ) it looks like the track is shown in the Second Life's clubs (the videos are often marred by the dj's unbearable distorted voice...).

Furthermore, many of the mixes are published on mixcloud (https://www.mixcloud.com/DJBabeBPM , https://www.mixcloud.com/DJ_Gadget ), but you need to have a subscription to see the trackslist?? :facepalm:

All in all, there seems to be an incredible effort on the music, the Second Life part and a lot more but the web side is definitely stuck in the 90s, disgracefully...

They probably don't realize what they could be if they looked outside Second Life...

In general, I think I miss the songwriting aspect most. Infected Mushroom really nailed it, which is why they're so popular. Nowadays, I can only find the Japanese doujin music scene among those that regularly mix and match psytrance with various other genres.

A few other recs going more in that direction:

- Talpa (https://sundancerecords.bandcamp.com/album/when-the-somberne...)

- Jerico's Law (https://juno909.bandcamp.com/album/another-law)

- Migma Shelter (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_l3dfWAOgloDDde... -- j-pop psytrance!)

- Hilight Tribe (https://hilighttribe.bandcamp.com/album/temple-of-light)

- Koxbox (https://koxboxmemo604.bandcamp.com/album/the-great-unknown)

- Hallucinogen (https://hallucinogenmusic.bandcamp.com/album/the-lone-derang...)

- And finally, the best hi-tech work I've ever heard. Sephax - Electric Currents (https://alice-drecords.bandcamp.com/album/sephax-electric-cu...)

Agreed. It’s unnecessary and in my experience the music creators themselves dislike it. It’s largely the hobby of stamp collector and trivia-oriented minds who are inhibited in enjoying the music itself. That said, the terminology can be useful for liberal associative descriptions. But humans love strict hierarchical taxonomies, stuffing artists into single buckets.

does this person even know what psytrance is?

http://music.ishkur.com/?query=PsychedelicTrance Here is a better breakdown of the genre, by an overly opinionated producer who has been cataloging electronic music styles for decades

In 2001 I spent a year in The Netherlands and went to warehouse parties in the North, at that time abandoned warehouses (also at that time Amsterdam was full of squats which are now > €1m flats) - it was both weird and an amazing time.

eg:

Wotzenknecht 1 Dec 2009

"An old classic, fortunately repressed thanks to Suntrip Records.

What defines a classic goa record ?

1) Simplicity over complexity

Take that, new-schoolers. Hear how simple the dreamy and uplifting "Deep Space 5D" is. Learn how to use space and time instead of adding huge layers of ultra-complex melodies one atop each other, then drowning everything into an ocean of reverb. Learn to know how the mind reacts to certain sound and patterns - learn buddhism.

2) A universe in each track

Ten tracks, ten unique moods. From cosmic mysticism to numbing bliss, notwithstanding the mind-fucking psychotropic experiences of both "Omega Centaurus" and the incredible "Harmonic Convergence". The melodies stay in memory for a long time, and for nothing in the world would I let them flow away.

3) An ending (Ascent)

No, this has nothing to do with Brian Eno. Or does it ? Learn that a downtempo track is not a pitched-down full-on stomper: again, it has to tell a story of its own. Remember how the best Transwave tracks always were their slowest one ? Speed is a measure, not a goal. "Flow" is beautiful, oneiric and chilling to the point of being terribly addictive.

This may sound paradoxical, but classic records often define their own rules. A tip to remember. "Transdimensional" is unique although no other album could define more flawlessly what goa trance is about. Yes, they are other classics out there - but guess what ? They use their own rules as well. It's no use trying to catch their spirit these days - they are already way beyond stars, between past and timeless hyperspace."

Current favorite artist: DJ Bim & Drukverdeler

https://open.spotify.com/artist/1mpYUkGqPoE5jZYUENa8Ig?si=1M...

Astral Projection, Infected Mushroom, Neuromotor, Goa Gil.

'99 I was in Goa, when everyone thought that Y2K was the end of the world!

Can still remember 25 thousand people dancing on the beach in Anjuna!

It was quite an experience!

Heck I was at one gig where Goa Gil played a set straight for 24 hrs! Bom Shankar!!

Notably missing influential artists: GMS, 1200 Micrograms, Shpongle, Infected Mushroom, Captain Hook, Ott… I probably forgot quite a few

I feel like it tries to define and narrow big overarching genres like that.

Is also fun to see a large library of the samples found in psytrance, but lots of other stuff on the site as well

For example, what would the song “Shiva Style, Pt. 2” by Mandragora classify as (if it counts as Psytrance)?

i miss isratrance. psyshop. i miss going to shows in the forest for a weekend and the freedom of it all. walk around naked if you want, it's nothing but love!

i'm going to share some artists and songs that i haven't seen listed yet from some other sub-genres of this weird music:

- Psykovsky (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onYzuQUmQzo) caution: this one is relentless!

- Eat Static (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzCjkXiVAdM)

- Planet B.E.N (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BadJg0pBwU0)

- Hux Flux (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIO9DFmAOYs)

- Derango (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Fw7meaL83Q)

- Etnica (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A47EaYXcgnk)

- The Antidote (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUf6aYUW3H4)

... man this post sent me back to high school. thank you for the nostalgia trip! i really wish the parties near me were still happening. when isratrance died i lost touch with the scene. everyone moved to facebook. i really, really miss it. i had a lot of fun collaborating with folks on isra, bouncing project files and stems back and forth. especially the swedes, those crazy forest folks :) reckon this winter i should dust off the gear. take care HN & much love.

Happy hardcore had a resurgence in 2021-2022 which is still going.

Like Armin’s last album.

Progressive Trance coming out of Anjuna has been huge for a while too.

PLEASE!!

EDIT I'm still glad for this site to recommend artists, that is a nice thing to do.

While I'm generally not a fan of trying to cram things into single boxes just for the sake of it, let alone have discussiona about which is which, it does really help to have categories. Maybe not too thin, ok, but still. Simple example: last weekend some local bands were playing and we were talking about whether or not to go. So instead of looking them up on the internet (if they were even to be found already), I could just ask the organizer to give me a general idea of the style. If they say 'one is goregrind, the other melodic death metal and the last one fairly standard grindcore' then we know pretty much what to expect. Same with psytrance: I really like when flyers simply state which of the various genres it roughly is. Like, if it's labelled as old-school goa trance then it's almost a gurantee for me I'll be able to completely lose my mind there, as opposed to hi-tech which I find interesting but isn't hours-long party material for me.

As an old Simon Posford (shpongle etc) fan boy … can anyone explain why exactly I’m not seeing his projects here? Too old, wrong genre?

The understanding of the author on each subgenre is surprisingly different from mine.

The reason dance music has so many sub-genres has to do with how djs mix records. They want to mix songs _smoothly_ and to do that they need songs that sound substantially similar to other songs they want to play. So they find a song or two they like, then they go looking for songs with similar tempos, energy levels, instruments, etc, so they can mix them together. If enough people settle into a particular musical territory, that becomes a "sub-genre", at least for now.

Even something sort of broad like "techno" evolves a lot over time.

Of all the dance genres available I am always frustrated that it's more popular than so many other great ones!

Suomisaundi psytrance is carzy.

Soumisaundi - wikipedia[0] "In 1997 Exogenic Records became the first record label to focus on Suomisaundi and approximately during the same time Midiliitto was founded as an association focusing on the advancement of production and commercialisation of Suomisaundi. Pepe Kosminen was the founding Chairman of Midiliitto. Together with Flippin Bixies, Midiliitto counted within its members many of the future international stars of Suomisaundi, including the members of groups like Texas Faggott and Squaremeat."

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suomisaundi

    ^F Infected

Oforia, MFG, Astral Projection, and more fill the void the disinfected mushroom left

For example, how many people that like Ministry have ever heard their true first album and actually likes it?

U2, Radiohead, Kate Nash, Metallica, Coldplay have also dramatically changed musical direction and lost/gained fans in the process.

I wanted to share it in to see how others react to it.

genre: Trance also: Trance scene: Trance emergence: early 90s Trance is the second most misattributed genre in all of electronic music (after Techno). If I asked you to give me a list of the best Trance DJs, all of them would be wrong. Because 1) You shouldn't have a concept of "best Trance DJs" and 2) Unless you have a copy of Harthouse or Eye Q's early catalogue on vinyl you probably don't know any actual Trance DJs. You probably don't know what Trance is either.

So what, exactly, is Trance and where did it come from?

As direct as I can put it: Trance was an offshoot of German EBM in the late 80s and early 90s and was probably coined in 1991 by Mark Reeder of MFS Records (although the word had been bandied about for several years before then). And we know this because he tells us as such in this 1993 documentary about the early Trance scene:

That first literal needle drop is Secret Knowledge - Sugar Daddy -- a "fine example of trance music". Trance proper is a term that only applies to this short-lived style of music in Germany and the UK (and to a lesser extent the US) before it got ripped apart and pulled in different directions for different reasons, mangling its reputation beyond recognition. And that is all Trance should refer to and nothing else.

The principle behind Trance was the unresolved, infinite track, with interweaving elements and layers and a ceaseless beat carrying it along like a metronome.

Like a lot of early electronic music (and like all good electronic music), Trance borrowed heavily from the aesthetics of Minimalism and it disdained the usage of the dull verse-bridge-chorus format of pop songcraft. In the hands of a competent DJ Trance sounds like one long song, unceasing and unwavering, all night long. A single arpeggiating synth lead with phaser sweeps is all it really needs.

That's not to say that Trance does not have hooks or melodies, or even anthems of the next-day-washing-the-dishes-whistling-to-yourself variety, or that it should not have breakdowns. They're just not supposed to dominate Trance to an insufferable extent.

Trance is best when it lives up to its namesake: It entrances you. Anything else it tries to do (like make you cheer on the douche jockey or put your arms in the air) is fucking offensive.

Unfortunately there is a common tendency among critics and historians to find a number of similar attributes in a specific media, group them into a genre, and then go back in time and retcon other things with those attributes as the same genre despite the fact that the people in those eras did not and would not have called it that.

This happens a lot in things like books and movies (for instance: the Manic Pixie Dream Girl trope coined in 2007 and then retconned to include Audrey Hepburn movies from 50 years ago) and it also happens in music.

And in electronic music's case it has happened most often with Trance.

There are a lot of things in the past that have been called proto-Trance or indicated as having a great influence on Trance, from Giorgio Moroder's galloping synths to the electric body buzz of Liaisons Dangereuses to the experimental minimalism of Pink Floyd - On The Run to even some Trance forerunners like Psychic TV or The KLF. But none of those are really Trance.

There is also a tendency among music magazines and fans to continuously call something that someone made Trance because they previously made Trance even though it's clearly evident that they have long since moved on from the sound and have no interest in returning to it, like Ferry Corsten's Electrohouse dumbassery, or whatever stupid shit Armin is trying to do, or Tiesto's pitiful attempts at trying to make Trouse happen. But none of those are really Trance either.

This is also why you should stop following these dipshits like they're rock stars. Listen to Trance because you like Trance, not because you hero worship Dutch superdorks.

And then there are the watered down pop offshoots of Trance (including Eurotrance and Vocal Trance) that you often hear in clothing stores at the mall. None of that is Trance either. That's not what this genre is. Ferry, Armin, and Tiesto are not here.

Listen to what real Trance should sound like. Trance as a concept was so fragile it obviously could not and did not last. As with most things in electronic music, things go to shit when the Dutch get hold of it. The descendents of Trance -- Progressive Trance, Hard Dance, Psy Trance, Eurotrance -- all sold it down the river in their own unique way.

When I think of pure Trance music, I really don't think of anything past 1994. There are some exceptions but generally all Trance music has been commercial pop drivel since the late 90s. I blame Oakenfold.

Ish.

With that mindset it's easy to see how people making music these days mix and match based on what they want to create, which in turn causes reviewers to try to point out all the different genres mashed together in a single/album.

Music has a discernible taxonomy, but since it's a universal language of sorts it's easy to get into confusing positions, not unlike the same word meaning something different between two different languages. So while someone might have "true" historic ties to the original Trance genre, is that a requirement for the music they make to be truly considered Trance? Or does it forever gain the lesser label of "Trance-like"?

In a similar vein, if there is a particular musical technique which is somewhat "required" for a track to be in a certain genre does music that skips that technique sometimes get classified as a different genre? Something like Polka has very particular tempo/beat/bassline - how many of those variables can be changed before it's not Polka anymore?

I can understand how these classifications can be handy (especially BPM sorting as someone said it really helps DJs build a set within a few BPM) but the best I can usually do is compare music to something else I know to consider how they are similar and how they differ. I don't usually hear something and immediately consider which genre that sound effect/technique places that track in, so I guess I'm more put off by the rigidity of Ishkur on the topic than anything. Music is fluid and genres are fluid too, and while there are parallels between evolution, DNA, and musical lineage, it isn't nearly as defined as genetics.

When does a genre "evolve" into another distinct genre?

> "It happened when Israeli forces engaged in fierce gun battles with Palestinian fighters in Kibbutz Be’eri and fired indiscriminately at both the fighters and their Israeli prisoners."

"terrorists took civilian hostages", has become "fighters took prisoners". That is the wheels of propaganda spinning.

> "...said that prior to that, she and other civilians had been held by the Palestinians for several hours and treated “humanely.” She had fled the nearby “Nova” rave"

Well sure, all I'd be talking about is the nice treatment of my captors too, who just slaughtered 250 of my fellow ravers. They offered tea and cake it was nice.

BPM, example songs, where to find more, lineage

This site is awesome.

https://everynoise.com/engenremap.html