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“Some chess tournaments” doesn’t change habitual logic, if players are training for and in the mindset of drawing for safety they’re not going ton flip on a dime unless the incentives are massive.
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If you have insufficient material how can you capture the king? Checkmate is by definition one move before forced capture of the king, the game doesn’t change by making it end one move later.
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There are many situations when this is for all practical purposes impossible. For example a King vs King endgame. Even really weak players will never accidentally put their king next to the opponent. |
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I think you’re arguing for the abolition of stalemate (and certain kinds of pins), and that’s totally reasonable. This doesn’t solve drawisness in general though.
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https://online-go.com/ is the easiest place to get started as a western beginner. The far more active go servers are Asian and have a higher barrier to entry in terms of registration, downloading the client, and dealing with poor localization. (Fox Weiqi, Tygem, etc.)
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> KataGo was trained with more knowledge of the game (feature engineering and loss engineering), so it trained faster. Not really important to your point, but it's not really just that it uses more game knowledge. Mostly it's that a small but dedicated community (especially lightvector) worked hard to build on what AlphaGo and LeelaZero did. Lightvector is a genius and put a lot of effort into KataGo. It wasn't just add some game knowledge and that's it. https://github.com/lightvector/KataGo?tab=readme-ov-file#tra... has a bunch of info if you're interested. |
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I'll suggest that a 3-3 invasion is still a bad move for amateurs because they don't follow it up correctly and it may hamper their learning.
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People are also cheering for Usain Bolt or whoever is the speediest runner this year, in spite of being able to outrun him by simply getting into a car...
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It's exactly like the invention of agriculture. Not having to hunt for food gave more opportunities for intellectual pursuits because of having more free time.
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I'm skeptical of this argument. It gave free time to some people i.e. the landed gentry but also created the toiling peasants and a hierarchical civilization.
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The amount of toiling they could do without dying was calorically limited. Having lethargy induced by a shortage of food doesn’t necessarily mean a preferable lifestyle.
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> When you read Go strategy resources, you see a lot of things divided into what best practices were before AlphaGo and what they are now. It's a whole big thing. Yes and no. The biggest takeaway from AI is that learning all the joseki doesn't actually matter that much, which has freed up players (except for the pros) to spend more of their time focusing on the more fun and interesting parts of the game. There are a lot of videos showing what josekis and strategies the AI recommends, but as a human you're likely not going to be any better off following them. This is for the same reason why AI analysis of fights is largely useless. That is, the reason why you lost the big fight (and the game) isn't that you didn't find that one obscure 9P move that could have saved you, but rather than you let yourself get cut 50 moves earlier. But the AI will never show you the move where you got cut as being the reason why you lost the game, it will only show you the one random move that you'd never in a million years actually be able to find. This video from Shygost sums up the most important strategy stuff that you actually need to know in order to get strong: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ig8cWuDSHTg |
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The accepted approach used to be that the direction of play mattered. Now the AI has told us that no, just get locally-even results in all corners and you're fine. I never would've guessed!
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humans will always have contests to see which human or group of humans is the best at something and it will always be entertaining to watch the contests. op is right.
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Those are two examples I thought I'd give rather than linkbombing. Yes, I chose the lyrics to Blackbird because they are short, it generates in 2:00 chunks, and they don't have obvious meter. It's not like a limerick or something. I wanted to test the musical capabilities, I wasn't interested in generating lyrics, though that can obviously be done. As someone who has studied and played music professionally my whole life, this isn't paint by number, at least in the way you think it is. Most music is very similar. You can write 90% of most popular music using the 6 diatonic trichords, and 80% probably with only 4. There are also only so many ways to rearrange those. This is not using a book of chord changes or melodies. I can promise you that after listening to 100s of versions of Blackbird, Yesterday, and the ABCs, I do not see the sort of pull the changes from a database that you're implying. In fact, I'd wager I could probably find a dozen songs that use the exact same chord changes and you wouldn't even have realized prior. I know because it's a great wedding gig trick, and we'd do it all the time. I don't know what changes you think were carbon copied in the first link. It shows really good songwriting skills. Use of tension and surprise. "It sounds like everything else in that genre." Yes, that's what a genre is. It also shows skill at vocal phrasing. This is really difficult and makes or breaks any song you try to write. Explaining how difficult it is to write good melodies while putting a hard syllabic constraint on it is beyond the scope here. It's not easy or obvious and usually sounds like shit. Like, try to sing Sweet Home Alabama along with the chord changes at the end of "Layla". After doing essentially that for years (that's exactly what songwriting is) I doubt I could do it and not have it sound idiotic. This thing can do that. Here's an example of it mimicking Russian to English phrasing: https://app.suno.ai/song/0d2d817f-4bf3-4837-85ab-9ff13abe9b4... David Bowi-ish phrasing: https://app.suno.ai/song/a6b9e419-2e0f-4208-b66e-929b2076d96... West Coast Hip-Hop banger alert if you're over 35 https://app.suno.ai/song/82e05d5b-7e0f-4715-8ed4-5f3d22fb81d... Acid Funk https://app.suno.ai/song/de174b94-1758-4fae-b497-93b79f384a2... Like I said, I have about 100 of these. This shit is nuts. Here's some ABC's Bossa Nova https://app.suno.ai/song/0fe61c85-62be-4327-9f05-5b0865353a6... 90's Grunge https://app.suno.ai/song/321a48e1-611b-4ec6-af0e-6e88815621c... Baroque https://app.suno.ai/song/68257dae-031f-4910-a013-9bc0281cee2... If you're thinking "Oh that just sounds like the Brandenburg Concertos" YEAH. THAT'S MY POINT. This level of mimicry is brand new. I've never seen anything close to doing anything like this. If you have, I'm all ears. Now since you think originality is important, here is a poem I wrote for a girl I dated that worked at a coffee shop. Never intended it to be a song, but I love it. https://app.suno.ai/song/9346c871-5e7f-439a-9134-d876aca7086... https://app.suno.ai/song/2be696db-3b3b-48df-9075-66d3388cc11... When I showed all this stuff to my musician friends this weekend (some who contract with Disney, Netflix, write scores, actively touring, etc), the reactions were actual tears, complete disbelief, shock, and existential dread. $1000 says there's no way you could tell me whether this is a Chopin original or not played amongst others, and that's my point. And if you say "While sure, but that's not really that impressive because computers", frankly, you don't know what you're talking about and have already made your mind up. https://app.suno.ai/song/bab48740-b977-4ee3-bdb8-0bc85995047... |
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It sounds from your analysis that "better as evaluated by AI" would be true even if it wasn't really objectively better. All I'm saying is that yes, it does mean objectively better in this case.
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Poker is all about “taking the emotion out of the game”, isn’t? In such cases, what can beat a machine? Doesn't a machine naturally have the best “poker face”?
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Lee Sedol continued games until the summer of 2019, more than three years after the match. He quickly dropped in strength while other players who already were stronger than him during the challenge were further rising in strength, surpassing all previous players according to the graph shown at the Go Ratings website. https://www.goratings.org/en/history/ Just like in mathematics many professional Go player peak before 40, after which the slowly become weaker and weaker. |
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i don't get it, this applies to every single game. you can't beat aimbots in fps, you can even rig any game bot to play perfectly. that's why you play against HUMANS. |
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I totally agree. There are some confusing differences in definitions of art :) I feel sorry for the illustrators, and wonder how they'll be able to sustain their creative passions. |
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> A few months later Bannister was no longer the only runner to do a 4-minute mile. These days, high schoolers do it. Wait. I know where you are coming from, but this is simply not true. |
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Can I rephrase this? "Professional Go players finally have a software good enough to beat them, as a result of which they got better by using the software".
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No? The article makes the point explicitly that they did not only get better by using the software; they're also better at playing moves the computer does not play.
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It's just a little boost, AI will keep getting better and better at faster pace, humans will have to figure out a different strategy all together.
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Computers were always going to be better at searching large trees, now they can help steer new heuristics for human players.
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When AI beats Go players, they roll up their sleeves and practice their passion and try to get better. When AI beats Hollywood... |
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If I was a professional player of any sort of game that AI can play then I would never play against AI. Just be a human, play against other humans. Who cares what AI can do? |
On the other hand, chess is more popular than ever. It's huge in high schools. I see people playing it everywhere. I know that for me, I love being able to play a game and then view the computer analysis afterwards and see exactly what I did wrong (granted, sometimes a move can be good for a computer who will know how to follow through on the next 10 moves, but not necessarily good for me... but most of the time I can see where I made a mistake when the computer points it out).
Side note: I play on LIChess and it's great. Is there an equivalent app for Go?